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    • #4063
      MyPrevost
      Keymaster

      After investing heavily at both Liberty and Prevost Jax to analyze the OTR air system, we charged it with 20 pounds 48 hours ago. Today, when we went to add an additional 5 pounds as advised by Prevost, it was all gone.

      Despite the significant expense at Jax, they couldn’t find a leak, even though it wouldn’t hold a nitrogen charge. Our bus company in Maine managed to charge the system with 20 pounds, which held for three months.

      Who is the best company to fix this issue for good?

      Thank goodness for global cooling.

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

      #4065
      MyPrevost
      Keymaster

      Woody,

      You might not want to hear this, but Prevost is likely your best bet. No one knows the routing of lines or the location of fittings and components in the OTR system better than they do.

      That said, losing that much Freon in such a short time indicates a significant leak. A leak of that size should be easily detectable with bubble solution or a leak detector.

      In our experience, a common issue with OTR systems is the seal on the compressor behind the clutch. If that’s where the leak is, it will be evident by an oily mess, eliminating the need for bubbles or detectors. The fix is relatively inexpensive, with parts for the seal replacement costing under $100 and a couple of hours of labor. If that’s the problem, I recommend taking the coach to a Carrier dealer. They have the expertise needed, especially if they work on large commercial AC units or refrigeration systems for trailers.

      #4066
      MyPrevost
      Keymaster

      It sounds like you might be getting the runaround from part-time refrigeration technicians. Any qualified technician should be able to locate and repair a leak as small as 1.0 ounce per year. Technicians specializing in buses may not be as qualified as those working full-time with Carrier or similar systems, as Jon suggested.

      Leaks in concealed lines within the coach are relatively rare, though not impossible. There are dye solutions that can be added to the refrigerant oil, which will circulate through the entire system and reveal leaks under ultraviolet light. This method is commonly used in large systems with extensive line runs, but our bus systems are comparatively small.

      Typically, leaks occur at seals or joints. If you’re adding 20 pounds of refrigerant and trying to locate the leak with soap bubbles, it’s not only ineffective but also illegal, as it can result in substantial fines for the technician. Instead, a technician should use an electronic sniffer detector capable of finding leaks as small as 1/10 of an ounce per year. The system should first be charged with a small amount of refrigerant and then pressurized with dry nitrogen to several hundred pounds. If they’re using soap bubbles, you should find another technician.

      If the leak is in an inaccessible location, the technician will need to isolate components and piping runs, similar to how you would locate an air leak in your air suspension.

      When you choose a local refrigeration technician, ensure they can prove the leak has been fixed by pulling a vacuum on the system to at least 500 microns or lower. If their vacuum pump can’t achieve this level, the system is still leaking. Make sure to check the vacuum gauge to confirm the pump can reach below 100 microns when disconnected from your system.

      #4070
      MyPrevost
      Keymaster

      Woody seemed to suggest that Prevost couldn’t find the leak even when the system was charged with nitrogen. While it’s true that R134 can escape more easily than R12, a loss of 20 pounds in 48 hours indicates a leak so substantial that you should be able to see refrigerant oil around the leak.

      The same applies to the vacuum process. I’m also questioning why they couldn’t locate a leak of that magnitude. If they didn’t find it, I still suspect that at least some of the leak is likely coming from the compressor seal.

      #4071
      MyPrevost
      Keymaster

      Woody, I think your system was originally R-12. Have the hoses been updated to support R-134A? R-134A can leak in a system that was designed for R-12.

      I had a compressor seal replaced at Coach Worx on my R-12 system, and there have been no leaks at all.

      #4072
      MyPrevost
      Keymaster

      John is absolutely right. A well-trained automotive A/C technician will follow the steps John outlined to accurately locate your leak. It’s rare for a small repair shop to have this level of expertise on staff, so don’t hesitate to ask the shop for their certifications. Although fixing the problem correctly might be more costly initially, it’s often the best approach in the long run.

      Once you understand the basics of how A/C systems work, they become quite straightforward.

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