Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 23 total)
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    • #38365
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      So I run across an article that says that the use of a Power Pulse unit by Pulse Tech Products. Will increase the life of Lifeline batteries. By removing sulfation from the plates. Is this the same principal of equalizing the batteries ?  Are these needed with new Magnum 2812 inverters ?

      Thanks in advance,
      Rocky

       

        Wife says We have ” GONE CRAZY ”
      Rocky And Tonya
      Fiber optic Splicing And Maintenance
      1996 Mirage XL 40 Liberty Classic # 322/ Rivets
      With TYRON’S Baby !
      #38367
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Instead of asking us, that is a good question to pose directly to Lifeline. My guess is they know more than we do.

      The cynic in me thinks the folks selling the device are making unsubstantiated claims because if anything would extend battery life I am sure the battery manufacturers would want us to know.

      Jon and Di 2006 Liberty Elegant Lady, 2021
      Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1950 Ford
      Knoxville, TN

      Owner of three Liberty Coaches since 1990

      #38368
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Jon,
      Like You have said in many posts. Which I do agree with BTW. ” It is best to go to the head of the stream to get a drink of water ”  But the many members here with all the years of experience is usally the best source of information.                                                                                                   Below was C & P from the Lifeline site. However , I still do not know if the Power Pulse will do a better job at removing sulfation from the plates than the Magnum equalization mode?  If they do , It would be a small price to pay considering what a set of batteries cost. More google searching and reading required I guess.
      *****************************************************************************************************************

      Can I equalize AGM batteries?

      This question comes up every day. Can I equalize AGM batteries? The short answer is Yes! Let’s start at the beginning on what equalizing is, what it actually does and how it can be beneficial to extending your battery life. Please keep in mind that not all AGM batteries are built equally. Our batteries are hand built and have large inter-cell connections, allowing them to be equalized. If you do not have Lifeline AGM batteries, please consult the manufacturers recommendations before you start this process.

      Batteries are pretty simple. You put energy into them, they store it, and then they give you energy when you need it. The most important part of that cycle is making sure that you put back all the amperage you have taken out. As a battery manufacture we understand that this is not always feasible. Certain applications make it almost impossible to recharge back to 100% every time. Equalizing can help.

      Let us start by telling you all lead acid batteries sulfate. This is a natural occurrence every time you discharge. Keep in mind that Wet Cell, GEL and AGM batteries are all lead acid batteries. They have different ways on containing acid but they are all a lead acid based structure. When you have a fully charged battery it is lead and sulfuric acid (Active material). When you start discharging a battery, the chemical reaction between lead and sulfuric acid provides energy for your application. The byproduct of this reaction is lead sulfate. Lead sulfate is a soft material that naturally covers the plates, both positive and negative, when the battery is being discharged. The deeper the discharge, the more lead sulfate will cover the plates. Once the load is turned off and it is time to recharge, lead sulfate is easily converted back into lead and sulfuric acid. This is why it is important to charge batteries back to 100%. If you don’t you will not convert all the lead sulfate back into the active material. If a lead acid battery is not immediately recharged, the lead sulfate will begin to form hard crystals, which cannot be reconverted by standard charging voltages. The longer this goes on, the harder it is to get all of your capacity back. We can sum this up with an example.

      Let’s say you have a 100 amp hour battery. You discharge 50 amps out of it. You only recharge back to 85 amps (85% recharged). The result is the last 15% of the plates never got converted back into active material. That 15% remains lead sulfate. Now you no longer have a 100 amp battery, you only have an 85 amp battery. As this continues the lead sulfate will get harder and harder. It will also start covering more of the plates, soon resulting in an 84 amp battery, then 83,82,81,80,etc…….. If this goes on too long the lead sulfate will become so hard, even equalizing will not bring the battery back to its original condition. Think of a battery like a fuel tank. If you get 100 miles out of 10 gallons of gas. Let’s say the next time you fill up your gas tank you only put 8.5 gallons in it. You can’t expect to get 100 miles out the tank that you only filled up to 85% of its capacity.

      With all that said, let’s talk about equalizing. Equalizing is a high voltage charge that will convert lead sulfate back into active material. This has to be done within a reasonable amount of time for it to work. As stated earlier, the longer it goes on the harder it becomes to remove. Our batteries should be equalized at 15.5-16.3 volts for 6-8 hours. Depending on the level of sulfation, you may need to perform this process 2-3 times. You must perform an equalizing charge after you have gone through a regular charge first and the batteries have reached float charge. After that you can start the equalizing. The amperage doesn’t necessarily matter. The idea is to get the amperage that the batteries need back into them. Sometimes they take 15-20 amps and sometimes they only take 5 amps. Every battery and application are different in their own right. You can usually tell if your batteries are sulfated when the open circuit voltage (OCV) is low. For example, a fully charged battery should be 12.8 volts are higher. A sulfated battery will be “finished” charging, yet only have an OCV of 12.2-12.5 volts. This is a good indication that the batteries need to be equalized.

      At Lifeline we understand that some applications, especially sailing vessels, cannot always fully recharge every day. As a result you will need to equalize. Your equalizing routine will depend on a lot of factors. We are here to help you custom design a custom equalizing routine based on your application and habits to make your batteries last as long as possible. We personally worked with John Harries, which owns and operated a sailing website www.morganscloud.com. After two rounds of AGM batteries failing within two years, John called us for advice. We provided John with two new batteries and a custom equalizing routine. His new batteries lasted him 5+ years in the same vessel.

      In close, all of us here at Lifeline are willing to assess your application and help you with a successful battery charging routine that will make your batteries last as long as possible. Ideally you should recharge back to 100% every time you use your batteries. If you cannot do this equalizing can help.

      Wife says We have ” GONE CRAZY ”
      Rocky And Tonya
      Fiber optic Splicing And Maintenance
      1996 Mirage XL 40 Liberty Classic # 322/ Rivets
      With TYRON’S Baby !

      #38369
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Apples and oranges.

      I sense that the equalization discussed by Lifeline is a specific procedure that has to be done for the time specified, and within a certain amount of time after the batteries have only been partially discharged and partially charged.

      Lifeline also has a very specific charging charging protocol and I think with our inverters the batteries are being charged in accordance to the requirements. It will be difficult to imagine a better battery maintenance system or device for our coaches because the inverters can have their charge cycles match the battery manufacturer’s standards.

      So the question becomes how exactly does this new device work and does Lifeline feel it is beneficial. If it is beneficial does it supplement the inverter charging or is it in lieu of the inverter charging? Was the device intended ot be used on batteries that during the normal course of discharge / charge such as from an alternator where a 100% charge will not happen or is it designed for use with our type of system?

      We do know bulk and equalization voltages have limits. Charge batteries at those voltages for a longer time than needed and the batteries are destroyed. How does the pulsing device adjust its cycle and if it does not what happens and why?

       

      We are in possession of a lot of knowledge on this site and others like it, but despite our collective intellect and amazingly good looks I still want Lifeline to answer the original question. That is unless the respondents from this site will honor the battery warranty.

      Jon and Di 2006 Liberty Elegant Lady, 2021
      Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1950 Ford
      Knoxville, TN

      Owner of three Liberty Coaches since 1990

      #38370
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Rocky,

      Save your money.. Where did you get information specific to the Power Pulse extending Lifelines?

      Tom & Nancy
      7 Prevosts Owned

      #38371
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Tom,
      I read about a gentleman on the other site in the archives that used it and had 6 years on His lifelines. And they were still going strong. It is a not a charger, It is a De-sulfator. It has capacitors in it and stores up energy and releases high energy pulses every second to break away the sulfation from the plates. It is not that new Jon, It has been on the market since 2007. And the US Military uses them. There are a lot of reviews on Amazon. One Gent said that He purchased it after reading about all the testing and research that Pulse Tech Products had done. I have not read that yet. I will share it when I do. Also several RV owners had positive things to say about them.
      I have submitted this question on Lifelines website. And most likely will not hear anything until tomorrow. The info C&P above from Lifeline does answer the equalization question though. One has to be careful , There is a lot of mis-information ( KOOL AID ) online everywhere !

      Bsafe,
      Rocky

       

      Wife says We have ” GONE CRAZY ”
      Rocky And Tonya
      Fiber optic Splicing And Maintenance
      1996 Mirage XL 40 Liberty Classic # 322/ Rivets
      With TYRON’S Baby !

      #38372
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      I’ll get the answer from Lifeline as well, have already discussed this in the past, but don’t remember what he told me. 6 1/2 years on Lifelines is not unusual without using any add on devise, I’ve sold 10 year replacements a few times. If your using the correct inverter settings and charging at 100%, there is no need for any equalizing or other devise. Usually equalizing comes up when someone is at the end of their battery life and they’re looking for the magic solution to extend the life. I’ve done it in the past as a test with no improvement.

      Maybe I misread your post, it sounded like this was a Lifeline approved add on the way you posted it.

      Tom & Nancy
      7 Prevosts Owned

      #38373
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Power pluse has been a well liked item on the Monaco owners group, for wet cell and AGM batteries, I have had them on my Lifeline’s  for 6 years.

       

      Jim Brown

      Jim Brown
      Fort Worth
      2000 Marathon 0631
      Ram 2500

      #38374
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Alvie,

      Your batteries were manufactured April 2011.

       

      Tom & Nancy 02 Marathon H, 732, 2016 Jeep Wrangler, 6 Prevosts Owned
       

      Looks like mine are 6.5 yrs old. Currently running test with bus unplugged to see how long before they reach 12.2 volts. Unplugged Sunday morning, still at 12.4 volts. Of course all that is running is various digital items, the two inverters and the fridge.

      Alvie & Elsie
      2006 XLII Royale
      2010 Colorado
      Chesterville, IL

      #38375
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      At 12.4 after overnight unplug you’re doing real good Alvie. This is a good example of not needing any type of add on devices to get good life out of your Lifeline batteries. Don’t discharge below 12 – 12.2 volts, charge back to 100% and you’re good to go.

      Tom & Nancy
      7 Prevosts Owned

      #38376
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Tom,
      Yes You misunderstood. The little gadget that I was talking about is from PulseTech Products. You can find a lot of info on their background and use on their website. Go to pulsetech.net They make de-sulfators that are not a charger but keep the plates in a battery clean. They do make chargers from small to very large.

      Jim,
      What type do You use. And what kind of inverters do You have ? Thank You for Your feedback.

      Bsafe,
      Rocky

      Wife says We have ” GONE CRAZY ”
      Rocky And Tonya
      Fiber optic Splicing And Maintenance
      1996 Mirage XL 40 Liberty Classic # 322/ Rivets
      With TYRON’S Baby !

      #38377
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      Jon,
      This is for You as promised. Looks like some pretty intelligent folks studied these for over 2 years. They have been on the market for 10 years. And seem to have very good feedback. Lots more very interesting reading on their site. Their products saved Our military over 7 Million dollars in batteries.
      Pulsetech.net
      Bsafe,
      Rocky

      ****************************************************************************************************************************

      Test Data
      Micrograph of a battery plate covered in heavy sulfation buildup (lead sulfate crystals).

      Studies by major universities were conducted in response to a request from the military, scientific and engineering communities for scientific validation of claims that Pulse Technology actually improves battery efficiency and lengthens battery life. PulseTech contracted with Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan and Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio to conduct separate evaluations of the technology. These extensive evaluations began in the summer of 1998 and concluded in the fall of 2000.

      During these studies, these crystalline buildups (sulfation) were regularly investigated by X-ray diffraction methods. The X-ray diffraction data confirmed the positive effects of the application of this patented Pulse Technology on the battery plate morphology. It shows a more even distribution of lead sulfate crystals over the surface area of the battery plates. It also revealed a significant reduction in the size of the lead-sulfate crystals. These microscopic changes, kind of an electro-mechanical “stirring” or “cleaning” action on the plate surface, greatly improve a battery’s ability to accept and store more energy.

      During the Oakland University study, testing was also done on stored batteries to determine how this patented Pulse Technology would affect military vehicles that sit unused for long periods of time. The batteries were stored at a constant temperature of 25°C (77°F) for 14 weeks.

      The final report lists the following results: “There is a distinctive difference in the charge capacity between these two batteries. A battery stored under the influence of pulsation (Pulse Technology) retained its original capacity while the capacity of the battery stored without pulsation lost a considerable amount of charge. The decrease of charge capacity of batteries stored without pulsation decreased linearly with time. After 14 weeks the decrease of charge capacity accounted for about 25% of the battery’s original capacity. In this same period of time, the charge of the battery attached to (a product using pulse technology) slightly increased. This is probably due to a reconditioning (reforming) process of the battery plates by continuous pulsation” or the application of Pulse Technology.

      Wife says We have ” GONE CRAZY ”
      Rocky And Tonya
      Fiber optic Splicing And Maintenance
      1996 Mirage XL 40 Liberty Classic # 322/ Rivets
      With TYRON’S Baby !

      #38378
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      There’s a big difference between stored batteries, that will self discharge over time, compared to the way we use our buses keeping our battery bank on float charge. So this is not Apples to Apples and it makes no sense to have this Power Plus hooked to batteries that are being maintained by a 3 stage smart charger at float voltages of around 13.3. But if it makes you feel good, have at it.

      Tom & Nancy
      7 Prevosts Owned

      #38379
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      I would rather hear from Lifeline since they don’t have a vested interest in proving or disproving the resullts. I tend to think the companies that make the battery know what is best and I have never seen any battery manufacturer suggest or recommend the use of the device.

      I fully agree with Tom in that proper use of inverters to maintain our batteries is the best thing we can do for them.

      Jon and Di 2006 Liberty Elegant Lady, 2021
      Jeep Grand Cherokee, 1950 Ford
      Knoxville, TN

      Owner of three Liberty Coaches since 1990

       

      #38380
      Mubashir Hayat
      Keymaster

      It took 46 hours to drop voltage, as measured at the batteries, to 12.2 volts. I did have one compartment light on in addition to the other items stated.

      Alvie & Elsie
      2006 XLII Royale
      2010 Colorado
      Chesterville, IL

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